What if?
What if the voters in county districts one and five recall their county commissioners?
What if efforts to recall a third commissioner are likewise successful?
What might be the outcome of those actions and what shape would our collective future take as a result?
Since those supporting the recall are fond of using a crystal ball in their campaign to unseat Hazen, Samuelson and, Roberts let's do the same.
Since a successful recall of Hazen and Samuelson would not happen at the same time as a recall for Roberts it is entirely likely that Rohne and Roberts will deadlock on the appointment of successors. Leaving John Raichl the deciding vote. Sorry John. If the Governor becomes involved you can count on him to appoint exactly the wrong people.
Now, I don't bring any of this up to try and convince you that you should vote against the recall. It's just important to put all of this into perspective. In a normal election cycle you would get to pick who sits in that commission seat. In a recall you do not. Few people understand that fact.
By voting in favor of the recalls you place our future outside the voters hands. It's just that simple.
So let's speculate some more.
Let's say the radical Democrats of Clatsop County are successful in this recall. Let's say they also apply pressure in the right places and get their people appointed. What happens then?
Under these circumstances the anti-LNG crowd would finally have exactly what they want and any opportunity to kill either or both projects will result in an end to those.
If they are not extremely careful in how they do that the county could face a lawsuit just like the Port of Astoria is facing. Just millions of dollars larger. I suppose they've already figured out that part. No need to worry. Really. I predict we'll just lose the estimated $8 million a year in tax revenue, the fire tugs, the extra emergency equipment and personnel, the road improvements, and the new commissioners, after getting the county into the red, will end up getting the boot themselves leaving a new commission with the biggest mess in Oregon history. That will happen just as soon as the new commissioners decide to take the next steps in protecting us from ourselves.
LNG is the most public part of the agenda. The next focus will be on all other development.
Unless the deal on the North Coast Business park is firmed up Costco will end up with the biggest parking lot in this part of Oregon because those other businesses will not appear.
Planning on building anything in the unincorporated areas of the county? Good luck.
The upside to all this is that in the end we will be right back where we were in 1981. It will be quiet and the natural environment will begin to take over the scared landscape that was once a vibrant, active community. There will be plenty of empty storefronts that used to be restaurants, hardware, clothing and grocery stores.
The only jobs available will be picketing WalMart.
So go ahead and dismantle county government. After all, this is just shear speculation.
Tom, obviously in your scenario, we would have to make Roger Rocka the Chair of the Commission, Jan Mitchel the vice chair and Patrick McGee, Tom Duncan and Susan Skinner the rest of the Commission. These honest, forthright and polically competant folks would then have the power they really want with the pesky problem of running for election - and Clatsop County could be the example or rural poverty they all want so much (Patrick could even "draw" vacant buildings).
ReplyDelete.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteThe county charter requires 3 "yes" votes for any action.
I doubt there would be any grounds for a lawsuit. As the LUBA appeal shows, it is more defensible to say "no" to Bradwood Landing than it has been to say "yes."
Very well said
ReplyDeleteOr not!
ReplyDeleteActually, Tom, it will take three votes to appoint the new commissioners, once Samuelson and Hazen are ousted, and the same once Roberts is removed from office. This is a requirement under the "Quorum" section of the County Charter.
ReplyDeleteThe failure of those facing recall to represent their constituents is just one of the issues, but it's a legitimate and substantial reason to vote yes.
Hopefully, professional and community-minded individuals will step forward with applications for appointment to serve out the terms. And at least three sitting commissioners will make reasoned compromises to seat qualified people.
Whoever replaces Samuelson will have to choose whether to face voters in the May 2010 election. The winner of that contest, or a possible runoff in November, would begin a full elected term in 2011.
Tom, your doomsday speculation is silly, but it did encourage this listener & reader to write in. Thank you fou the chance to dialogue.
This is from the flies message board at Astoria Rust, just too funny not to share.
ReplyDeleteA cowboy from Texas attends a social function where Steve Forrester is trying to gather more support for his tabloid.
The Daily Astorian has had to market in Texas since they have become the famous tabloid of the the Northwest region and subscribers are quitting right and left. The texans that have come to Astoria are the only ones that buy advertising in his paper anymore, so he's a smart business man, figures he'll go where the money is, TEXAS!!!
Once Forrester discovers the cowboy works at a texas oil company and has a living wage job with benefits and skills he learned at the local community college and an outstanding school in his community because the oil company pays alot of money in taxes so that the quality of life in this town in Texas has improved dramatically, he starts to belittle him by talking in a southern drawl and single syllable words.
As he was doing that, he kept swatting at some flies that were buzzing around his head.. The cowboy says, "Y'all havin' some problem with them circle flies?"
Forrester stopped talking and said, "Well, yes, if that's what they're called, but I've never heard of circle flies."
"Well Sir," the cowboy replies, "circle flies hang around ranches. They're called circle flies because they're almost always found circling around the back end of a horse."
"Oh," Forrester replies as he goes back to rambling. But, a moment later he stops and bluntly asks, "Are you calling me a horse's ass?"
"No, Sir," the cowboy replies, "I have too much respect for the citizens of Astoria, I have a cousin named Hootala who lives there, he sure looks damn good in his cowboy hat, spank me it makes me proud to call him cousin, but then I think his Daddy might be my cousin too...nuff about me Mr. important publisher, I would never dishonor that community that knows more than any other small town in america, that I would ever call the owner of the Daily Astorian a horse's ass."
That's a good thing," Mr. Forrester responds and begins rambling on once more.
After a long pause, the cowboy, in his best Texas drawl says, "Hard to fool them flies, though." Be sure to say HIGH to my cousin Hooter when y'all get back there ya hear!
The LNG plants will never be built and it will have nothing to do with enviro wackos or Riverkeepers or redshirts. It will have to do with the market.
ReplyDeleteThe Natural Gas industry is advertising that they have at least a 100 plus year supply of Natural Gas in North America. NW Natural has announced prices coming down this winter.
Bradwood and OLNG are businessmen who are trying to get licenses they can sell to someone with a lot of money to build. No company is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a facility for which there is little or no market.
That is the saddest part. That all this division is happening over the latest pie in the sky project that won't happen.
Appreciate what we have here. What brought people her. Whay keeps people here.
Isn't Astoria a much better place than it was 10 years ago?
Speculate all you want Tom but, two of these Clatsop County Commissioners(Hazen and Samuelson) are going up on the blocks for judgement by their coanstituent/neighbors on October 27, 2009 and that is a fact and a bell that will not be unrung.
ReplyDeleteTheir true worth and value in their leadership will be determined by those that know them and I find that ironic in that Samuelson said somebody came up to her and asked her to sign her own recall petition.
Think that was a message in itself relevant to her future?
To the latest Anon - yes, North America has plentiful supplies of natural gas, but you just don't stick a pipe in the ground to get it. It takes lots of money and equipment - and if people here are so ticked at the idea of a pipeline buried 3 feet underground (which we've got already), just think of how they'll feel about a directional drill a quarter of a mile away...not to mention that the process has been shown to poison groundwater and many of the chemicals used make people sick.
ReplyDeleteJust another aspect to consider.
Tom , Your comments are right on and to the people who oppose LNG that exactly what they want. A nice place to live and send our youth off to the big city to find jobs. They are willing to drive to Portland to do their shopping and send their money out of the area. If the silent majority doesn't wake up and speak up we will take a huge step backwards. Once we take that step it will take many years just to get back to where we are now. Thank for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIf the silent majority doesn't wake up and speak up we will take a huge step backwards. Once we take that step it will take many years just to get back to where we are now. Thank for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI think they have and had a spokesman on KAST-Coast Watch Call-In this morning.
Seems to me, you are making a stretch linking "Anti-LNGers" to not wanting any industry at all in our area. If one seems to be a good fit for our community, then I'm sure that a majority of the citizens of this community will be on board with it. The trick is the right kind of industry. I'm sure that they are out there and that we will find them or they will find us.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Natural gas goes...they could very easily build a plant to EXPORT LNG as easily as they can build an import plant. Just because the current company says they won't, or whatever they say, doesn't mean it won't sell to another company that doesn't have that over their heads.
Two things:
ReplyDelete1) I'd sure prefer this (or any) forum require actual names be posted. I'm getting tired of all the Anonymous names; it's confusing and frankly too easy for disinformation and deception given. Anyone should be willing to put their actual name to what they believe and are saying. Tom Freel does I could be one of the Anonymous people for all you all know, but I can promise you I'm not.
2) Re: LNG economics: What difference does it make to any poster or to this economy whether there's a market for LNG to be imported or even exported? (it may mean quite a lot to one of the Anonymous posters... I don’t know--another reason for No. 1 above). If an investor is willing to spend millions to build a legal facility to handle LNG, they might just know a little more than the casual reader does about the subject. So what if they are wrong? Sometimes businesses guess wrong, sometimes they guess right. They make money, they don’t make money. My best guess is that there is an economic market for natural gas via LNG, and if, as reported lately, big amounts of gas from giant shale reserves is recoverable from the Rockies and is deliverable to the Northwest, then that will propel the price of natural gas downwards, benefiting all of us who use it. Who wins? Probably everybody; the LNG people just won’t make as much as they would have but will still make money. Good for them.
As a consumer I prefer competition, and allowing LNG to develop, even if there are potential alternative sources, means more competition. I don’t see how that hurts anyone, and the addition of a major employer here in Clatsop is darned good for Clatsop and all nearby counties as well as Oregon and Washington. God knows we need a source of money that isn’t the federal government. They ran out long ago, people.
I do know this: the known energy value per dollar invested is so much higher and reliable for natural gas than it is for, say, wind generation, that it isn’t even worth the time to compare. Except that the people who oppose natural gas production are many (not all) of the people who love wind generation in place of gas. And it makes no economic sense. Why? Because the only reason wind generation is even being built today (and actually being considered by the City of Astoria) is because of “free” money from Uncle Sam. And as I said, he ran out of it long ago. Subsidizing an energy source does not make it viable, it only hides its blatant, economic failure. I’d eliminate subsidies whereever they exist. Let the market decide what’s the best, and I’ll guarantee you, not one wind generator will be built for a very long time.
We absolutely must get back to encouraging unsubsidized, private capital financing private investment, hiring private employees, building and producing private goods and services, all of which is the real, the only, source of all goverment funds.
3) As to the Recall. The commissioners deserve our respect for their office. At least until the next regularly scheduled election. Yet, per the Recall process, here we are with a special election. People, we have to retain all these commissioners if we are going to continue to be a civil, organized and prosperous community. There should be room for dissent, but no room for extremists to control our lives.
Art Hyland, Astoria
Neither Bradwood or OLNG have the capital to build an LNG facility. They are betting on it. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of businesses do it. The difference is we're betting our river on it. If, and it is a big if, either recall is successful it will be as much the way people were treated by these commissioners.
ReplyDeleteAnd after what has happened is anyone surprised people want to remain anonymous?
You and Swede make quite a team Art,
ReplyDeleteArt,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate people who post under their own name, but I also understand why some people need to maintain anonymity...either because of their place in the community, or their employer, or fear of reprisal from neighbors.
Charles said...
ReplyDelete"Art,
I appreciate people who post under their own name, but I also understand why some people need to maintain anonymity...either because of their place in the community, or their employer, or fear of reprisal from neighbors."
And this is exactly why a voice hiding hiding behind anonymity is worthless.
Notice, even Charles hesitates to verify his own name.
Art Hyland?
Swede Nyberg?
Tom Freel?
Agree or disagree with them, they choose to make their voice and view heard regardless of their community position or employer.
Agree or disagree with the Daily Astorian but you will not, 99% of the time, be able to post any comment/opinion without verification of who you are and what you wrote.
None of us are saints around these parts but I still believe I should be accountable for what I say and I have to make a living just like everybody else.
Thanks Patrick, I thought so too.
ReplyDeleteEmil
Patrick McGee said...
ReplyDeleteAnd this is exactly why a voice hiding hiding behind anonymity is worthless.
Nope. Some of us have highly visible positions in the community and we are NOT going to allow liars and vindicative megalomaniacal crooks like Forrester or Marquis even the remotist chance of pulling their shennanigans on us. When Marquis is run out of state office or is safely behind bars then you will know who we are and will thank us.
They keep bragging about it so it should be used. The 4-131 referendum where they brag that 67% of the voters voted against LNG.
ReplyDeleteLet's be truthful and concise about it. 39% of those eligible voted to overturn the BOCC's land use decision regarding CONDITIONALLY allowing pipelines through lands zoned parks, opens spaces and recreation. 19% of those eligible voted to UPHOLD the BOCC land use decision BUT most importantly 42% of those eligible chose not to vote at all!!! The SILENT MAJORITY. The ones that the Board have repeatedly said aren't speaking at all. It is a PROVEN FACT that when people don't speak (especially in mail in, privacy insured, elections) it is either because they don't understand the issues or they are content with how things are being operated. Either way, the Board is elected to represent those people PLUS the 19% as well as the those who opposed.
So yeah, listen to the results of your own referendum. The people HAVE SPOKEN and 42% are content with the status quo of allowing the Board to make the decisions in regards to the LNG question!
You admire people who have the fortitude to post under their own name? Goody for you. I will be fired if I post under my own name. I can sue? BS! They don't have to say why I am being fired, but we would all know. YOU don't have a family depending on YOUR paycheck. Dependent on you letting your boss say whatever he pleases knowing you can not voice your opinion. Until you have walked in the shoes of those who cannot AFFORD to post their name have a little compassion for us. If you are not able to do that I am glad we have these forums to see you for the elitist snob you are. Also, as the two-faced since everyone knows you use multiple names whenever it suits you to do so.
ReplyDeleteBUZZZZZZZZZZZZ, flap flap flap with damp wings on the way to Warrenton……psychic fly is hanging out at Costco….she sometimes uses Hazen’s head for a crystal ball……Recall Fly # 2 is hoping to find her there…..buzzzzzzz…….buzzzzzzzz……
ReplyDeleteRecall Fly # 2: Psychic fly……I’ve come to ask for some wisdom…and insight into the future…
Psychic Fly: Wisdom? And you’re one of those moronic recall flies? Holy major metaphysical crap!!!
Recall Fly # 2: Pleaaaassseee Psychic, I must have guidance, so much has gone into this recall effort from your common trust fund baby to some top elected officials….we must prevail, or next thing you know we’ll get a Walmart!
Psychic Fly: Alright, I’ll give you a reading, but only because works been really slow since this recall has happened, you see many don’t see a future for Clatsop County if you recall flies win. Only if you promise to listen and bring the message back to your small LOUD group….and pass it on to the demented Daily .
Recall Fly # 2: K, K, K, I promise!
Psychic Fly: I see frozen wings in your future fly….and that of many others of your ilk. You see if you win you do not win, Hazen and Samuelson care to much for this community, your group just wants to abuse what collective power they can muster with the help of the daily fishwrapper….it is a prescription for long term failure fly, maybe even short term…you know their terms are up in 2010 and so is that of Marquis the Great….ohhhh I’m seeing something…..small….which is the opposite of great….or large….a large development (not to be confused with what you think the size of the Bradwood landing project is), will take place and make others small……I see a replacement of a very important elected office in the near future…….
Recall fly #2: K, K, K,………psychic you’re sccccarrrrin’ me here….are you sayin’ there might be some consequences for our behavior, like a backlash on our leadership? Who will I follow??
Psychic Fly: I’m seeing something else here….quit sputtering ….I must see it clearly….this change will mean money will be needed…..I see that the money is there…..someone has a “knack” for a getting large donations of money, and a passion for this community, it is a woman who cares, her name is Samuelson….she is known for helping others…..I must take a break---- I’m overwhelmed….it is clear to me you are following the wrong people….
Recall fly #2: K,K,K,……buuuuttttt psychic you have said nothing about Hazen….what about Hazen….
Psychic fly: Silence! MORON!!! ……..Heavy fly sigh…. Hazen has been biting his tongue….but it won’t last….soon he will act…..Samuelson tells people directly what she believes…..Hazen waits quietly…..I see that they are very different…yet very much alike…..one has great hair, the other has none….all people and flies that know them know they are public servants because they are sincere….people and flies do not know that about your side….they are not trusting you because of all the lies……I am exhausted from all the lies….heavy fly sigh……you must leave now.
Recall Fly #2: Psychic fly……pleaaaasseeee I promised the team I”d come back to the warm laptop at the courthouse for my mountaindew break and have a plan….if you can’t help me I have to go see psycho fly…….I’m scar’d a him!!!!
Psychic fly: I will not consume any more of your negative energy…….I must cleanse myself so I do not pass it on…….., you take , you do not give, now go!
check out Astoria Rust, there's history on the message board re: our local politics that is quite entertaining...and much of it true!
Dear Voters: The future of Clatsop County depends on your NO vote in this recall. I have worked tirelessly for the people of Clatsop County. In my daily contacts with South County voters, I find people are confused about all of the issues surrounding this election. It is easy to be mislead by the brutal personal attacks and repeated character assaults on me and other county officials by the Daily Astorian. The truth must not sell newspapers. As for the recall petitioners, this small vocal group is focused on one issue and has an extreme agenda. They have proven they will stop at nothing, including perpetuating lies to try to get me out of office. North County politics should not decide who represents you in South County. I pledge to represent you and the common values we hold. The campaign against me as your commissioner in South County has been financed by very few people, in fact the last time I checked 93% of the campaign was funded by one individual. I ask that you demand democracy and order and VOTE NO. It has been a privilege to serve you for the last three years; I will continue to fight to get more services to South County –keeping your tax dollars right here. As always, feel free to contact me with any of your questions or ideas, www.annsamuelson.com
ReplyDeleteRespectfully,
Ann Samuelson
Clatsop County Commissioner
District 5
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Nope. Some of us have highly visible positions in the community and we are NOT going to allow liars and vindicative megalomaniacal crooks like Forrester or Marquis even the remotist chance of pulling their shennanigans on us. When Marquis is run out of state office or is safely behind bars then you will know who we are and will thank us."
Then you prove out everything, The Daily Astorian's, Steven Forrester has said recently in everyone of his editorials about rule by intimidation and general fear of retaliation for exercising your right as a citizen to "Free Speech".
As long as you clarify that you are speaking as an individual citizen and the opinion you express is yours and not in behalf of your employer or public panel you sit on, you have every right to speak your view under your own name and if you are punished for it then your constitutional rights have been violated and can be legally vindicated.
Your opinion means nothing if you will not be held accountable for your conviction.
Ann Samuelson?
Agree with her, disagree with her, recall her, don't but, you have to respect the fact the she and her ilk cannot plea their cases as "Anonyms" and that they are willing to suffer the blows of accountability in public service for their actions and what they say, right or wrong.
They, at least, deserve the respect of their detractors and supporters by their being held accountable for what they say as well and it sticks because there's a name behind it for history.
Anonymous writing:
ReplyDeleteMcGee, it was common for the founding fathers of this country to write anonymously, or even use another name, in the papers of that time. Benjamin Franklin would write letters to himself under an assumed name, and then reply to them in one of his news papers. Thomas Jefferson wrote several treatices regarding democracy using another name. The reason was two fold: first, the writer did not want to sway the argument by disclosing his name, thinking that some people would credit or discredit the writing simply because of who wrote it. The second reason was they did not see the need to expose themselves to their enemies in order to get their point across. In summary, the people who wrote the first amendment often did not use their real names when writing about government and other things. One might say, then, that writing anonymously is at least as patriotic as dissent.
Patrick McGee said...
ReplyDeleteThen you prove out everything, The Daily Astorian's, Steven Forrester has said recently in everyone of his editorials about rule by intimidation and general fear of retaliation for exercising your right as a citizen to "Free Speech".
Complete and utter nonsense, McGee
Patrick McGee said...
Your opinion means nothing if you will not be held accountable for your conviction.
Another meaningless load of blathering poppycock. Where do you come up with the notion that anyone is accountable to you, McGee?
McGee, I just read your last post and wanted to start slapping myself! Where are you coming from, where are you going with this rant, and I don't want to know where you've been....
ReplyDeleteTrying to help mend the North/South divide and then writing another shrill letter about how the "outsiders" from North County are trying to run poor Ann out of Southg County?
ReplyDeleteAnother example of Ann talking out of both sides of her mouth.
Only "south county" voters can vote to recall her or not.
And Tom, please don't let your site become the trash pile for reposts of the crudest and craziest anonymous blogs (see above)
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete"McGee, I just read your last post and wanted to start slapping myself! Where are you coming from, where are you going with this rant, and I don't want to know where you've been...."
9:00 PM
Who wants to know?
Anonymous said:"Another meaningless load of blathering poppycock. Where do you come up with the notion that anyone is accountable to you, McGee?"
ReplyDeleteA notion?
You're responding aren't you?
Want to make it stick?
Put your name on it.
Patrick McGee said...
ReplyDeleteYou're responding aren't you?
Why yes, it was pretty evident I responded. So why do you feel the need to ask?
Patrick McGee said...
Want to make it stick?
It's already stuck.
Patrick McGee said...
Put your name on it.
No need to. It's not about the messenger. It's about the message.
John said...
ReplyDeleteAnother example of Ann talking out of both sides of her mouth.
And Tom, please don't let your site become the trash pile for reposts of the crudest and craziest anonymous blogs (see above)
It appears, John, Jim or Lisa don't approve of differing anonymous opinions from their's on local sites, but in their world it's okay to understate or deny the connection to an anonymous act of vandalism against Ms. Samuelson after the local daily paper claimed Ms. Samuelson was like the KKK and then somebody goes and scrawls KKK on her mailbox. "John" doesn't like people who disagree with him so he pleads for someone to silence us.
"Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletePatrick McGee said...
You're responding aren't you?
Why yes, it was pretty evident I responded. So why do you feel the need to ask?
Patrick McGee said...
Want to make it stick?
It's already stuck.
Patrick McGee said...
Put your name on it.
No need to. It's not about the messenger. It's about the message."
I'm sorry but, what was "The Message" again?