I had to move this comment forward to a post because this person talks about issues central to what we discussed on the show this morning.
Anonymous said...
Hey Tom,In regards to voting...I have a question. How can a Christian vote Democrat?Today the issues that separate Republican from Demoncrat are the same issues that can be divided pro-Christian vs. anti-Christian.Christians should be against abortion and homosexuality. They should worship God the Father instead of Mother Nature. We should also be against state sponsored indoctrination in the gov't school monopoly. We need choice through vouchers and charter schools.Crime and punishment is an issue of personal responsibility and sin. But Dems blame society. Charity for the poor should be the Churches job.And the gov't should be able to gag Pastors from political speech by threatening to take away tax exempt status. The Dems higher taxes move us towards Socialism, which tends toward Atheism and reduced freedom. So if a person claims to be a Christian and claims Jesus as their Lord and Savior... how can they vote Democrat???
My first question would be: Are you serious?
No way of telling really but I'll bite. It's just too good to resist. Especially since this post is anonymous. Here's my response.
Dear Anonymous,
Your take on proper Christian beliefs excludes a lot of people. Worldwide. You talk about choice as long as it fits your very narrow definition of those things a "true" Christian would simply have to support. Actually if you were successful in getting a voucher system for education your logic would automatically exclude choice wouldn't it? Why should a Christian support charity to help others in need through a church but slam the door on the needy in every other aspect of life? Aren't we taught to be charitable in all ways and through all means available to us and to perform these good and charitable acts with no thought to how it may affect us or to seek reward in this life for taking these actions?
As far as freedom and socialism go I would say that Canadians (many of whom are Christians) enjoy the benefits of socialized medicine. They have for years. Yet Canadian citizens are considered part of a free, democratic (excuse the term) society with elections, the ability to work, they have private companies and corporations as we do with considerably less regulation, and they are free to live and work where they choose. Now that's creeping socialism.
As far as questioning whether your particular sect is a religious organization or an arm of a political party, it is very responsible on the part of the government to make sure that tax exempt status is awarded appropriately to ensure that the burden of taxation is fairly applied. I agree with you on that point.
Abortion is a matter of personal choice. Can a gay or lesbian be Christian? I know a few. Everyone does whether you realize it or not. My understanding is that in the end everyone is judged by their acts. That's up to God. Not me or you, or any human being.
There are two levels to the crime and punishment issue. Heaven and Earth. We're back to who gets to judge what we do as criminals, as prosecutors, as judges on earth, and as those who make the laws and write the rules. You are right when you say it's a matter of personal responsibility and sin. Society has never been good at handling either one.
I wish you well.
TF
two comments:
ReplyDeletejudge thee lest thee be judged.
let God sort it out.
I was thinking the other day that this very subject is tearing the Republican Party apart. There is a very far right wing faction that would love to have a "fundamentalist" Christian government using biblical law. Then there is the GOP who believe in smaller government (except for the parts they believe should be bigger) and lower taxes (except those that support their bigger government needs).
ReplyDeleteThe far right rants about abortion, gays and religion being in the public systems. If we had a fundamentalist Christian government abortion would be outlawed, gays would be persecuted, people would be stoned for working on the Sabbath, hands would be cut off for stealing, eyes plucked out for looking at porn and lord knows what other old testament law would be implemented. Oh, we'd probably be deporting anyone of other religions or have them contained in specified areas of cities.
People in the far right tend to pick and choose certain biblical passages as their crying tools, to stir up the blood of their targeted audience. It is easy to take a snippet and spin it into an absolute truth from their point of view.
The GOP, that is disappearing, is strong in its beliefs, but, are being out shouted by the far right. I hope that the GOP can find a uniting voice, not just a mantra of "no" to anything put forth by the Democratic Party.
I'm a Christian and a democrat. I think abortion is wrong and likewise believe that the choice should not be legislated. I don't sleep with people of my own sex, but, what you do in your bedroom is your own business. I believe in smaller government as long as social services are maintained and lower taxes as long as schools, the military and social services are fully funded. Until another form of funding necessary government services is found, taxes and fees are what we have to work with and sometimes they have to be raised. However, I think during this recession only a temporary raise should be considered. An ending date needs to be put on any tax increase.
School vouchers are fine, unless the public schools system is weakened. Everyone has a right to an education.
We should all have the same rights. Who gets healthcare, who serves in the military, who gets what jobs, on and on.
It is my job to love my fellow human beings, not judge them. Judging is god's job. Frankly, who would want God's job but the almighty himself.
How can I be a Christian and vote democrat? Because I'm a child of god and he loves me the same as anyone else. He gave us a mind to use and a soul for guidance.
All humans have sinned and come short of the glory of god. We will only enter the kingdom of heaven through his grace.
I do the best I can to live the right kind of life as I understand it to be and some days I fall short
Hey Tom,
ReplyDeleteAre YOU serious?
Do you really believe what you said or are you afraid to say what you really think. I think you know better but, like me you don't want to take the heat.
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for their righteousness" but i'd rather try for righteousness without the persecution. (I do think that my car would be keyed and my tires slashed, or worse, if I signed my comments. Especially for my comments about the unions!)
So, I will respond, anonymously. As soon as I can.
Til then, God Bless you!
Yes Tom,
ReplyDeleteEven the Catholics consider Abortion and Homosexuality "Non-compromise issues".
These two issues should be enough to turn a Christian away from the Democrats.
But if that's not enough, just take apart any other issue that the dems stand for and it will prove to be on the dark side.
First of all abortion is not a choice, if it's a child.
And if it has a heartbeat, brainwaves, is sucking its thumb and its DNA is different than its mothers... it is a child.
Soo..."Thou shall not murder".
In the event of rape, we should punish the guilty enough to deter others. And NOT sentence the innocent to capital punishment (you know, abortion).
And the Bible is clear on homosexuality. It is a sin. Granted we have all sinned. But we are told to "go and sin no more". So don't pratice it and don't condone it.
This is not my judgement. It's what the Bible says.
So if any are engaged in homosexual behavior... stop. If you believe in God you know that "things that are impossible with men are possble with God." Ask God to help you, no matter what sin you are hooked on.
And if you really want to know the truth, ask Him for it. But not everybody wants the truth.
And yes, as you said, everyone will be judged by their acts. And since all have sinned, we would all be guilty if it wasn't for Christ's payment for the penalty of our sin.
But any who reject His payment will have to pay themselves.
I don't know what God will do with people who don't know this but I do know He will be fair.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteSteve's response shows how badly the the Christian veiwpoint is being distorted. He hasn't read his Bible in while has he?
Christians don't want to persecute gays. No more than we want to be persecuted for any sin we still struggle with.
We just don't want to call homosexuality "an alternate lifestyle".
God gave us all the right to sin. Jesus didn't "stone" the woman caught in the act of adultery. He said "you who are without sin throw the first stone". The same applies today.
I'm not going to throw any stones. But if the woman at the well said "This isn't wrong, I'm just different"... we should disagree.
What the gays do in the own bedrooms is their business. But they don't want to leave it there. They want to remove the stigma of sin from their behavior. The Democrat party helps them to that.
And as Jesus didn't advocate stoning Sabbath breakers, cutting off hands, deporting other religions or plucking out other peoples eyes. Read the New Testament again! (Matt. 5)
If your hand or eye causes you to sin... better to go without them than to go to hell! Jesus said this to stress the importance of not going to hell. Is anything in this life worth going to hell??? NO!
Harsh punishment gets rid of sin but come on!
And, yes, we should make it illegal to murder babies.
I do feel sorry for women who are burdened with the children they could have to bear, but the right of the baby to live supercedes any
hardship the mother might have to endure. (OK. Except death. That is the only medical exception.)
These probable hardships need to be prevented by preventing pregnancy in the first place. Does anyone not know what causes pregnancy?
As for vouchers weakening public schools???
So what? If other schools do the job better.... why not. Let the public schools go away! May the best school win!
Others, like Steve, think everyone has a right to an education.
Well, how much education?
And why should ditch diggers pay for the Masters degree for a sudent with poor grades?
If people like Steve really believe the Bible and really do want smaller gov't, lower taxes, a strong military and school vouchers... he is in the wrong party.
So to answer the question "How can a Christian vote Democrat?" by being weak on knowledge of the Bible, misinformed about what the issues and misinformed on what the parties stand for.
Any disagreements? Please don't address so many isses at a time. Try the strongest arguement you can think of and I'll try to prove it wrong. I if can't I will stand corrected.
Hey Tom,
ReplyDeleteYou thought that vouchers would exclude choice? How?
I agree with the Democrats that say that we need a well educated workforce for businesses. But they Dems are lying. They are just milking that excuse for the teachers union.
If we could use vouchers to send our kids to the schools of our choice... US schools might not be ranked 19th in the world.
Do you really think Canadians have better health care than we do? There sure are a lot of them coming down here for treatments they can't get in Canada. Where will they go if we Socialize our health care system?
I should hope that the Christian Canadians knew better and just got out-voted. But I'm beginning to wonder because of how many down here are fooled.
Does the Democrat party really care about the poor?
A long time ago some really smart guy predicted that democracies would always fail. Because people tend to vote for the one who promises to give them the most stuff. And politicians more concerned with their caREARs than the country will keep on taking from the few and giving to the masses until the country collapses fianacially.
The Democrat party is doing this. And they do it under the guise of unemployment, welfare, OR health plan, etc. And then they also cry about tax breaks for the rich. (rich being someone with a good job) Never minding that the top earners pay for almost everything.
Where is our incentive going? Welfare mom's get more cash for making more babies. Bite off more house than you can pay for and get rewarded. Make your mortgage payments and you are a sucker. And the more overtime we put in the bigger the tax penalty.
We have the same percentage of poor as we did when LBJ made his GREAT Mistake.
One last thing. I made a mistake one my first comment. I do NOT think that Pastors should be gagged by the IRS. (Not that Democrat pastors are... they somehow get away with it) Granted Preachers can use up to 5% of their time on political issues before they can lose their 501 3c tax-exempt status. But after that... no more.
Moral of the story... It's Democrat Party Vs. Christianity and America!